Jamaica Star Forum - Topics on dance hall, reggae, music and much more
Top 40
 
Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register.
Nov 22nd, 2009, 2:02am
News: We have now adjusted: 1) Quotes 2) Dividers 3) alternate colors for pots 4) white text on white backgound 5) center page and move from edges- Dec. 28, 2006
Home Help Search Login Register


Pages: 1
Send Topic Print
islam (Read 131 times)
black and mild
God Member
*****


hell or hi wata?
eider way yuh gwine
f**kin dead

Posts: 15218
Gender: male
islam
Nov 7th, 2009, 4:58pm
 
i am about to place them in the same category of evil as the catholic church.............it is becoming quite clear to me that islam creates two things better than any other religion........fanatics first and violent, terrorist fanatics second........ppl may argue all muslims are not the same and they are peaceful blah blah blah....but, except for christian anti-abortionists, i cannot recall another religion that causes or quite apparently encourages its followers to wreak havoc on their fellow man, infidel or believer being immaterial, nor if the taliban and pretty much the entire middle east is to be believed, they would revert to the olden, more primitive days and literally make women slaves again......and they start em young i see......8yrs old and married to a 45 yr old man.........nevertheless, it is becoming quite clear to me.....that islam is becoming a problem...........the same way the crusades and the spanish inquisition were a problem.........but this time, the fanatics can kill larger numbers of ppl while suffering minimal losses to their "army"..i mean if i were a military commander....losing one suicidal bomber and killing 95 ppl seems like a fair return on my investment............just think 1,000 dead soldiers, 95,000 dead enemies...and the ratio would remain constant at higher amounts or even expand exponentially as the methods of delivering death become more efficient and prolific............the "good" muslims try to distance themselves from the carnage...but yet have to tell anyone or been seen making any steps in order to curb or stop the fanaticism, the mayhem and the murder.........it is their religion, they should know, correct????
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Jah Melku
God Member
*****


I am that I am

Posts: 4032
Gender: male
Re: islam
Reply #1 - Nov 16th, 2009, 10:28am
 
I'm not a muslim, or a religionist in any meaningful sense.
 
Nonetheless I have issues with your post.
It's grounded in a lot of ignorance of what Islam is about.
I would never embrace Islam, but I at least saw a point in learning about it from the perspective of intellectual followers.  Any religion forged in war (which Islam was) is dangerous in my opinion.
 
How many fanatics would you assume are in the world, or those that want to kill infidels as you say?  Estimates are that 5% of the faithful are militant (not meaning that all would commit suicide bombings).
 
So you're willing to paint 95% of the rest of those people with the same brush?
 
"Jihad" as declared by Osama and his ilk are not within Islam.  Osama had to get a certain cleric to try to make the argument that it was OK.  This position has not been embraced by the vast majority of clerics, and is still seen as an aberration.  
 
I think if you even just read the Koran's rules of Jihad you'd understand how obvious it is that Osama is not representative.  Also, suicide is NOT allowed in Islam.  
 
One more thing: People will always point out  (inaccurately) that the Koran says Muslims should kill infidels, without reading context.  Even then, how is this any different than Christianity saying that God will kill the vast majority of non-Christians, before judging them and throwing them in the lake of fire?
 
 
 
I don't judge a man by his religion, but by the way he represents himself.
Jah Melku
Back to top
 
 
Email   IP Logged
REVOLUTIONARY
God Member
*****


What is there to
deny but self?

Posts: 907
Re: islam
Reply #2 - Nov 16th, 2009, 11:16am
 
Ignorance plagues many minds in the world today..........
 
The fact of our own lives is that we could pull far away from the social limits we choose to adhere too, knowledge and expressions in humanity would become exponential and limitless in potential where no life could deny it's own beauty.
 
We place value on lives saying one is good and one is evil, even lesser aspects within such relation....... Would you have strayed from the same action if every aspect of your life was identical to any single fanatic in the world today? Every life is equal, we have simply failed to realize an existence where this is true.
 
This type of thinking only adds to the problem, it is poor focus.
Look into yourself, there you will find the sole truth that something is lacking in your expression alone....... You contain the expression to free all minds, it is you who is failing to use it.
Back to top
 
 

  IP Logged
REVOLUTIONARY
God Member
*****


What is there to
deny but self?

Posts: 907
Re: islam
Reply #3 - Nov 16th, 2009, 11:29am
 
Every "evil" in this world today is simply a reflection of how enslaved our own minds are; when we truly become free, we can then take responsibility for every life.
Back to top
 
 

  IP Logged
britannia
God Member
*****




Posts: 43224
Re: islam
Reply #4 - Nov 16th, 2009, 2:22pm
 
Jah Melku  
 
.
Quote:
I would never embrace Islam, but I at least saw a point in learning about it from the perspective of intellectual followers. Any religion forged in war (which Islam was) is dangerous in my opinion.

 
lucky you, ive never met a muslim who could intelligently explain their beliefs... ...  why do you think islam is dangerous then?
 
 
Quote:
How many fanatics would you assume are in the world, or those that want to kill infidels as you say? Estimates are that 5% of the faithful are militant (not meaning that all would commit suicide bombings).

 
 

 the diference i see is this....   there is an incentive to be a suicide bomber..  they are glorified and rewaarded in the afterlife arent they?

 
 
 
Quote:
"Jihad" as declared by Osama and his ilk are not within Islam. Osama had to get a certain cleric to try to make the argument that it was OK. This position has not been embraced by the vast majority of clerics, and is still seen as an aberration.

 
jihad is real in islam....   and was the name given to the crusade of the middle ages with christians in the fight for jerusalem...  bin laden's use of the term is incorrect  yes....  as  he is not fighting against another religion..... but  the west and its way of life  is collectively seen as a christian.. right?
 
 
 
Quote:
I think if you even just read the Koran's rules of Jihad you'd understand how obvious it is that Osama is not representative. Also, suicide is NOT allowed in Islam.

 
bin laden is muslim through and through... his beliefs might be orthrodox and steeped in cultural traditions.... but it is islam..  
 
   suicide is forbidden yeah... but its also made very clear on several occasions that the person enjoys life in paradise.........

 
 
 
Quote:
One more thing: People will always point out (inaccurately) that the Koran says Muslims should kill infidels, without reading context. Even then, how is this any different than Christianity saying that God will kill the vast majority of non-Christians, before judging them and throwing them in the lake of fire?

 
 have to agree with you  re context.....  but the aim of islam has also been to spread  he religion .. by any means necessary...  in the past oit usually wars or violent means.....  christians did the same at one point ... but do you still have christains  killing those who dont accept their faith?
 
 
Back to top
 
 

love tko
  IP Logged
squattaz
God Member
*****




Posts: 26769
Gender: male
Re: islam
Reply #5 - Nov 16th, 2009, 3:14pm
 
some may consider capitalism a greater evil
Back to top
 
 



where is friday?........... You can't go wrong wid chicken.
http://jamaicangroupiemet.blogspot.com/
http://caribbeanpolitical.blogspot.com/

  IP Logged
REVOLUTIONARY
God Member
*****


What is there to
deny but self?

Posts: 907
Re: islam
Reply #6 - Nov 16th, 2009, 3:58pm
 
Absolutely..... Out of sight, out of mind!
 
We flush our waste away in pools of water
We hide our everlasting garbage in holes in the earth
We leach our chemicals into the soil
We expel our noxious exhaust into the air
We provide "knowledge" and "opportunity" to our privileged
We cast our "failures" and elderly into institutions
 
We have wasted or destroyed more lives than any fanatic could ever comprehend. It seems as though our privilege comes free from conscience. How could we with such mental freedom to invent and invest in change, judge a mind so far from even rationalizing what it is to be free.
Back to top
 
 

  IP Logged
Jah Melku
God Member
*****


I am that I am

Posts: 4032
Gender: male
Re: islam
Reply #7 - Nov 17th, 2009, 2:00am
 
I'll try to answer them up here as the quoting will take too long.
 
Islam is dangerous because it's created in a time of war.  A lot of the advice Mohammed gave dealt with an environment in which they were constantly at war.  Just like Judaism and Christianity, too many modern followers can't realize that the context in which those decrees are made may no longer apply.  One common example being Paul's admonition that women should never cut their hair.  Fortunately, a lot of people don't follow that (a lot of Pentecostals do though).
 
No, suicide at all, regardless of reason, is NOT rewarded.  Being a martyr is though, and that is being killed in DEFENCE of God or Islam.  So the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan, they get rewarded (I think they would actually qualify, and I think there's a valid argument that that's justified)
 
You're not allowed to fight against the people of the book simply because they are not of your religion, even Pagans are allowed to live within Islamic territories if they pay tribute.  During the crusades that is Jihad, and a VALID use of Jihad, as they were the ones being attacked (again, like in Afghanistan now).
 
Islam ordains spreading the religion yes, but so does Christianity, so they are both bad in that context. A lot of the wars that spread Islam were not religious, but political.  For example, Mohammed didn't take Arabia because they weren't Muslim, he thought they would be stronger if united under a common leader.
 
Osama might be muslim, but it's not fair to judge Islam by him. That's like udging all Christians by the actions of the KKK (which is a very Christian organization).
 
 
Again, I think they are all delusional (fundamental Christianity/Islam, orthodox Judaism).  I would never subscribe to any of them.  I just think if we're going to argue with them, we should do it in an honest fashion and not pick and choose examples that fit our arguments and then paint all believers as if they are a monolithic group.
 
Islam has actually been more progressive than Christianity in some respects.  Examples include science, math, women's rights. It's more lately that Islam has appeared to be more and more a backwards religion.
 
Quote from britannia on Nov 16th, 2009, 2:22pm:
Jah Melku

.
Quote:
 I would never embrace Islam, but I at least saw a point in learning about it from the perspective of intellectual followers.  Any religion forged in war (which Islam was) is dangerous in my opinion.  


lucky you, ive never met a muslim who could intelligently explain their beliefs... ...  why do you think islam is dangerous then?


Quote:
 How many fanatics would you assume are in the world, or those that want to kill infidels as you say?  Estimates are that 5% of the faithful are militant (not meaning that all would commit suicide bombings).




the diference i see is this....   there is an incentive to be a suicide bomber..  they are glorified and rewaarded in the afterlife arent they?




Quote:
 "Jihad" as declared by Osama and his ilk are not within Islam.  Osama had to get a certain cleric to try to make the argument that it was OK.  This position has not been embraced by the vast majority of clerics, and is still seen as an aberration.    


jihad is real in islam....   and was the name given to the crusade of the middle ages with christians in the fight for jerusalem...  bin laden's use of the term is incorrect  yes....  as  he is not fighting against another religion..... but  the west and its way of life  is collectively seen as a christian.. right?



Quote:
 I think if you even just read the Koran's rules of Jihad you'd understand how obvious it is that Osama is not representative.  Also, suicide is NOT allowed in Islam.  


bin laden is muslim through and through... his beliefs might be orthrodox and steeped in cultural traditions.... but it is islam..

  suicide is forbidden yeah... but its also made very clear on several occasions that the person enjoys life in paradise.........




Quote:
 One more thing: People will always point out  (inaccurately) that the Koran says Muslims should kill infidels, without reading context.  Even then, how is this any different than Christianity saying that God will kill the vast majority of non-Christians, before judging them and throwing them in the lake of fire?


have to agree with you  re context.....  but the aim of islam has also been to spread  he religion .. by any means necessary...  in the past oit usually wars or violent means.....  christians did the same at one point ... but do you still have christains  killing those who dont accept their faith?



Back to top
 
 
Email   IP Logged
frankster
God Member
*****


Aid is Imperialism

Posts: 2475
Gender: male
Re: islam
Reply #8 - Nov 17th, 2009, 6:40am
 
Most organize state religion is the same, warlike.
 
Islam is 600yrs younger than Christianity, 600yrs ago Christian Europe was raping Afrika  and the Americas in the name of Jesus Christ...violence on an unimaginable scale was visited on these people.
 
It continues today, and both are equally guilty.....using religion to rationalize war.
 
Back to top
 
 



LEGALIZE IT. Bob Marley for national hero status
  IP Logged
squattaz
God Member
*****




Posts: 26769
Gender: male
Re: islam
Reply #9 - Nov 17th, 2009, 9:47am
 
Quote from frankster on Nov 17th, 2009, 6:40am:
Most organize state religion is the same, warlike.

Islam is 600yrs younger than Christianity, 600yrs ago Christian Europe was raping Afrika  and the Americas in the name of Jesus Christ...violence on an unimaginable scale was visited on these people.

It continues today, and both are equally guilty.....using religion to rationalize war.


 
pretty much... not necessarily the institution but how is used.
Back to top
 
 



where is friday?........... You can't go wrong wid chicken.
http://jamaicangroupiemet.blogspot.com/
http://caribbeanpolitical.blogspot.com/

  IP Logged
Pages: 1
Send Topic Print